Summary of my Clicker Expo Group Question

My original question:
Classical conditioning
Although this isn't exclusively a clicker question it fits into positive dog training.I understand the ideas behind Classical Conditioning and have used it on severaldifferent occasions. But how do you wean off of classical conditioning when itbecomes less necessary?

For instance, two examples have come up recently.One was that I classically conditioned my two dogs to get along with the new catby not letting them actually meet for a while, but being fed chicken atincreasingly smaller distances for acting calm around the cat. But at somepoint, we had to let them meet after getting closer and closer off-leash and itwent pretty well.

And a friend came to me with a training problem that her 6-month-old JRT puppyis beginning to bark at dogs on on-leash walks. The puppy is verywell-socialized off-leash. So she started bringing chicken on walks and feeding it when other dogs were in sight and the puppy "noticeably relaxed". It seems the next step is to make the distance smaller and then what? Wean off thechicken? On everything I've read on classical conditioning there's a good description on how to start but not much on what you do when the dog stops needing it. Is it a judgement call when the dog seems calm enough to go without the reinforcer?Thanks. Shaya

The Responses:
Shaya,
I am going to have a try at responding though there are others on this list more experienced than myself.
Here goes:

"And a friend came to me with a training problem that her 6-month-old JRT puppy
is beginning to bark at dogs on on-leash walks. The puppy is very
well-socialized off-leash. So she started bringing chicken on walks and feeding
it when other dogs were in sight and the puppy "noticeably relaxed". It
seems the next step is to make the distance smaller and then what? Wean off the
chicken?"

The last sentence that I put in italics & underlined has 2 distinct criteria changes. One, is to "decrease the distance." The second is to "wean off the chicken." These steps [criteria changes] need to be worked separately. A good golden rule is to "only change one criteria at a time" and to make the changes in baby steps. Making sure the dog is always successful AND make sure to work the dog below the point where they react [this is often called, "below threshold]. It is really important for the dog's learning process to do this.
As I see your friend can can do one of several things:
1) Continue to work her JRT pup at the current distance and begin to slowly wean off treats at the current distance. IF, after weaning off treats at the current distance - the pup begins to react again, then the pup is not ready to be weaned off the chicken and your friend will need to back up.
OR
2) Continue to work her JRT pup at current distance BUT introduce a 'cue' for the dog to "look at her" or 'target her hand' in order to receive a treat. This teaches the pup something else she can do when she sees another dog [besides barking] AND it still allows her to earn a reward! Its a win-win. When that behavior [targeting the hand or making eye contact] is reliable [meaning that in 20 tries the dog performs the desired behavior 16-18 times]. THEN change criteria, but slowly.
Funny story about teaching a different behavior. I have a 140lb Anatolian Shepherd, the "look" behavior was not reinforcing enough for him. He likes to be more interactive...SO his default behavior when we see other dogs on walks is to: 1) Give me a 'high-five" or 2) give me a monkey kiss [bops me on the lips with his nose]. It is so funny to see him do it that it often diffuses any tension on my part or on the other dog owners part. We all get a good laugh out of it.
OR
3) Decreasing the distance between the JRT pup and the other dog BUT continue with the chicken at a high rate of reinforcement. When your friend starts to see the pup relax again at a closer distance. Then decrease distance again & so on.
I think it is important to know that [depending on the individual dog] a decrease in distance can be a yard or it might be only a foot or two. Even though it is exciting to see our dogs make progress and watch their behavior change, be sure to encourage your friend not to move too quickly. Slow and steady wins the race.
Hope that helped and did not add to the confusion.
Best,
Beth


And another one

I see operant conditioning and classical conditioning on a continuum. If Iam using CC, the treats are given regardless of what behavior ishappening. Example, sight of another dog = treat-treat-treat-treat.If I then thought the dog was ready, I would "slide" into operantconditioning and mark/reinforce specific behaviors of relaxation - softeyes, muscle softness, slower breathing, rolling over onto a hip, lowering the head and so on. When I am working with dogs with issues, I slide back and forth between CCand OC as needed.
CC = this is a nice place to be OC = that behavior is the precise one I am looking for

You know, everyone talks about weaning off reinforcement. I never do. FOR ME, there is always something in it for the dog. If the dog is working hard, there should be payment for that!It is a judgment call when to move to OC. I can tell because the dog is comfortable, looking to me and not concerned about the dog. With my reactive dog clients, I will do CC until I see them looking to me, thenI'll start doing OC by asking for trained behaviors. If the dog were not able to respond to cues, that would tell me we need to change something -add more distance, go back to CC, work OC for more relaxation. Ability to respond to cues is a good barometer as is the ability to take treats gently. When sharking crops up, then it's time to change something to regain relaxed and calm focus again.

And, for me, learning that judgment call part is the most fun and the mostinteresting of the whole process. "Oh now you're ready for some tricks? let's check that out! OK, you can do tricks, let's tweak something and seewhat happens".
Helix Fairweather

Next one:
Hi Shaya:
What I do is wait for the dogs to see whatever it is that caused the arousal and turn to me for the treat. I Click! for looking away from "it" AND for looking at me. Now I have operant conditioning and I can begin to reinforce the look-aways on an intermittent schedule.
Charlotte